Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-meeting<br />
[16:06:46] &lt;sabdfl&gt; hello<br />
[16:06:49] &lt;popey&gt; hi<br />
[16:06:59] &lt;popey&gt; we have two things on the agenda..<br />
[16:07:26] * popey pings AlanBell <br />
[16:07:39] &lt;popey&gt; you about AlanBell to talk about "Allowing non-English posts on planet.ubuntu.com"<br />
[16:08:08] &lt;AlanBell&gt; hi<br />
[16:08:21] &lt;popey&gt; [TOPIC] Allowing non-English posts on planet.ubuntu.com<br />
<a name='0'></a>
[16:08:30] &lt;popey&gt; woot, i can drive the bot after all<br />
[16:08:37] &lt;popey&gt; AlanBell: did you want to discuss that at this meeting?<br />
[16:08:52] &lt;AlanBell&gt; right, so there has been some discussion recently about posts on the planet in non-english languages<br />
[16:09:09] &lt;AlanBell&gt; and it was suggested that it might be a topic to discuss with the CC<br />
[16:09:45] &lt;AlanBell&gt; personally I am in favour of people writing in an assortment of languages, the planet is an aggregation of "what Members write"<br />
[16:09:46] &lt;popey&gt; what's your thinking?<br />
[16:10:22] &lt;pleia2&gt; there is currently no prohibition on non-english posts, the guidelines are "should attempt to use English where possible to reach the widest possible audience"<br />
[16:11:11] &lt;pleia2&gt; if you're not interested in reaching the "widest possible audience" I don't really see a problem with non-english posts<br />
[16:11:11] &lt;AlanBell&gt; true enough, but there was a rather negative reaction to one recent non-english post<br />
[16:11:27] &lt;AlanBell&gt; that is my view too<br />
[16:11:30] &lt;sabdfl&gt; i would rather we set up appropriate planets for other languages<br />
[16:11:32] &lt;popey&gt; would there be a problem once the proportion of EN to non-EN gets above a certain threshold and the planet becomes 'mostly non-EN' at which point EN speakers will find it problematic to read?<br />
[16:11:35] &lt;sabdfl&gt; fr.planet.ubuntu.com<br />
[16:11:41] &lt;popey&gt; i agree<br />
[16:12:00] &lt;AlanBell&gt; there are other language planets, and loco planets<br />
[16:12:05] &lt;sabdfl&gt; along with an offer of translation volunteers for *particularly* noteworthy blogs (or even just reposts of links to translate.google.*)<br />
[16:12:09] &lt;popey&gt; no reason not to aggregate those planets on a global planet<br />
[16:12:28] &lt;sabdfl&gt; popey: except, while it's romantic in concept, nobody would actually read it<br />
[16:12:36] &lt;popey&gt; true<br />
[16:12:48] &lt;popey&gt; unless there was technical magic that made them all $my_locale<br />
[16:12:59] &lt;AlanBell&gt; the language planets that exist are not just posts of Ubuntu Members<br />
[16:13:03] &lt;popey&gt; i.e. google chrome<br />
[16:13:14] &lt;sabdfl&gt; would you subscribe to a feed that  you could only understand 20% of? and if ubuntu continues to grow as wonderfully, english will be 20% of the total, max<br />
[16:13:32] &lt;popey&gt; if it was automagically translated, yes, probably<br />
[16:13:32] &lt;sabdfl&gt; can i haz babelfish?<br />
[16:13:36] &lt;sabdfl&gt; oh dear<br />
[16:13:40] &lt;sabdfl&gt; i think i screwed that up<br />
[16:13:40] &lt;AlanBell&gt; I would (but I doubt it would get that much)<br />
[16:13:45] &lt;sabdfl&gt; i can haz babelfish?<br />
[16:13:52] &lt;sabdfl&gt; to eat?<br />
[16:13:57] &lt;AlanBell&gt; nom<br />
[16:14:15] &lt;popey&gt; heh, yet another 10.10.10. idea :)<br />
[16:14:20] &lt;czajkowski&gt; AlanBell: but it could.  and while you can click on a post and open it up and translate a post, having them all in one RSS feed like many do would lead to a lot of cranky people trying to read the planet<br />
[16:14:36] &lt;popey&gt; or cranky people _not_ reading the planet<br />
[16:14:42] &lt;sabdfl&gt; let's call it Project Babelfish :-)<br />
[16:14:50] &lt;czajkowski&gt; cranky folks are not what we want really :)<br />
[16:15:18] &lt;AlanBell&gt; the raison d'etre of the planet is to aggregate members, not to aggregate great English blogs about Ubuntu<br />
[16:15:57] &lt;popey&gt; I suspect most would rather subscribe to a planet they can read than one they cannot<br />
[16:16:43] &lt;popey&gt; as sabdfl suggested a romantic idea to let everyone post in their own language, but ultimately who would hear the tree fall?<br />
[16:16:45] &lt;AlanBell&gt; also makes for a damn good test of UTF-8 and RTL support in assorted feed readers :-)<br />
[16:16:54] &lt;sabdfl&gt; that's true :-)<br />
[16:17:57] &lt;AlanBell&gt; it really isn't going to end up with masses of posts in other languages, just looking at the demographics of the members<br />
[16:19:18] &lt;AlanBell&gt; if it gets to 80% english, 20% others I would be surprised, and I would also be quite capable of translating the ones with interesting looking pictures, and skiping the ones that I don't feel like putting the effort into reading<br />
[16:19:23] &lt;pleia2&gt; AlanBell: I tend to agree<br />
[16:20:03] &lt;AlanBell&gt; at the moment we have a rule, phrased as a guideline (like the pirate code arrr)<br />
[16:20:44] &lt;AlanBell&gt; which results in the occasional post in non-english having a load of nasty comments on it and people pointing at the rule/guideline as a justification for their negativity<br />
[16:21:03] &lt;huats&gt; I think something that should be considered is also the web indexing. I am not sure of how it would be handled in many languages. (well I am not sure if I can speak or not)<br />
[16:21:04] &lt;popey&gt; i do like the idea of separate planets, or feeds which allow people to select which langs they can see<br />
[16:22:00] &lt;AlanBell&gt; yup, some kind of technical tagging enhancement would be great<br />
[16:22:08] &lt;popey&gt; well<br />
[16:22:10] &lt;Daviey&gt; Hello!<br />
[16:22:15] &lt;pleia2&gt; separate feeds would be nice<br />
[16:22:20] &lt;AlanBell&gt; planet.ubuntu.com/fr+en  would be kind of awesome<br />
[16:22:21] &lt;popey&gt; introducing Daviey and his new magic planet :)<br />
[16:22:26] &lt;pleia2&gt; not so much separate planets :\<br />
[16:22:38] &lt;AlanBell&gt; moons perhaps?<br />
[16:22:46] &lt;popey&gt; on sticks?<br />
[16:22:51] &lt;Daviey&gt; Okay...  planet won't really scale for multi language planets IMO<br />
[16:23:02] &lt;Daviey&gt; as in planet, planet that we currently have<br />
[16:23:14] &lt;Daviey&gt; you will have to forgive me, i'm not exactly prepared for this topic :/<br />
[16:23:28] &lt;popey&gt; sorry, i poked Daviey a moment ago knowing he's worked on this<br />
[16:23:40] &lt;popey&gt; well, this being planets, not this being multi-lingual planets<br />
[16:23:45] &lt;sabdfl&gt; well, nasty comments should not go unchallenged, though gently<br />
<a name='1'></a>
[16:24:06] &lt;Daviey&gt; http://ubuntuuk.daviey.com/planet/ <-- is an old design, based on a fork of a django based planet app called feedjack<br />
[16:24:21] &lt;Daviey&gt; ^^ that includes openid support, with team based authentication access<br />
[16:24:28] &lt;sabdfl&gt; sweet!<br />
[16:24:44] &lt;AlanBell&gt; sabdfl: the comments were addressed appropriately<br />
<a name='2'></a>
[16:25:06] &lt;Daviey&gt; http://erk.daviey.com/u-uk-planet.png <-- is the newer implementation<br />
[16:25:29] &lt;Daviey&gt; (note the button to Add Planet)<br />
[16:25:50] &lt;sabdfl&gt; note the button theme, generally<br />
[16:25:55] &lt;Daviey&gt; When a user adds there feed, it would be reasonably trival to ask what language they will be posting in<br />
[16:26:08] &lt;inetpro&gt; how about all.planet.ubuntu.com to give those few who would like to read everything a page with all the lingos<br />
[16:27:14] &lt;Daviey&gt; planet.ubuntu.com{/fr/,/de/,/etc/} seems like a good fit?<br />
[16:27:18] &lt;popey&gt; i think the technical implementation of how one subscribes can be figured out later, i guess the main question is not 'how should we' but 'should we'<br />
[16:27:33] &lt;inetpro&gt; I certainly would not want to waste my bandwidth downloading pages that I have can not possibly understand<br />
[16:28:09] &lt;inetpro&gt; s/I have can/I can/<br />
[16:28:19] * Daviey finds it frustrating when his native language isn't posted on the planet...  I obviously don't object, but i would prefer to see it natively. :)<br />
[16:28:31] &lt;pleia2&gt; as long as the main planet.ubuntu.com remains an aggregation of all feeds, I'm happy with any solution, I wouldn't want to segregate out folks who aren't english-speaking members<br />
[16:28:51] &lt;pleia2&gt; but if someone really wants english only, planet.ubuntu.com/en/ would be nice<br />
[16:29:00] &lt;popey&gt; that sounds fair<br />
[16:29:03] * AlanBell agrees with pleia2 <br />
[16:29:06] &lt;popey&gt; especially if it's well documented<br />
[16:29:17] &lt;Daviey&gt; pleia2: It could be possible to hide your non-native language via cookies.. which would fit both ideas<br />
[16:29:18] &lt;popey&gt; we could totally blog about this! ;)<br />
[16:29:30] &lt;AlanBell&gt; popey: but in English please<br />
[16:29:34] &lt;popey&gt; Daviey: hard to do with rss readers surely?<br />
[16:29:49] &lt;drubin&gt; Daviey: Noo that breaks rrss readers<br />
[16:29:51] &lt;Daviey&gt; popey: in that instance you use a language based url, ie /de<br />
[16:29:57] &lt;popey&gt; right<br />
[16:30:22] * Daviey just throws these crazy ideas out there..<br />
[16:30:27] &lt;popey&gt; Daviey: would you be willing to work on a demo site that had these features?<br />
[16:30:36] &lt;popey&gt; indeed do you have the time to?<br />
[16:30:52] &lt;Daviey&gt; popey: Yes.. i think there is a team of people eager to get involved :)<br />
[16:30:59] &lt;popey&gt; :)<br />
[16:31:01] &lt;pleia2&gt; woohoo<br />
[16:31:01] &lt;Daviey&gt; they just need some extra encouragement<br />
[16:31:21] &lt;popey&gt; AlanBell: does that sound acceptable?<br />
[16:31:25] * Daviey waves at mhall119 o/ cjohnston o/ and some others<br />
[16:31:37] &lt;AlanBell&gt; certainly does<br />
[16:32:08] &lt;AlanBell&gt; Daviey: one blog could easily have posts in two or more languages remember<br />
[16:32:26] &lt;popey&gt; [ACTION] daviey to work (with others) on a demo multi-lingual planet<br />
<a name='3'></a>
[16:32:37] &lt;popey&gt; AlanBell: implementation details ;)<br />
[16:32:44] &lt;Daviey&gt; AlanBell: yeah.. i think version 1 would really need pre-declaring what language your primary posts will be in.<br />
[16:32:46] &lt;popey&gt; anyone else got any comments on this topic?<br />
[16:32:55] &lt;pleia2&gt; nope, thanks Daviey!<br />
[16:32:58] &lt;AlanBell&gt; ok, so keep the rule/guideline in place until the technical enhancement is built<br />
[16:33:20] &lt;Daviey&gt; AlanBell: If you want to brainstorm ideas, that would be equally appreciated!<br />
[16:33:45] * Daviey declares AlanBell his "Architect"<br />
[16:33:46] &lt;AlanBell&gt; Daviey: yup, and we should pull in some people who actually post in other languages<br />
[16:34:04] &lt;popey&gt; great stuff chaps!<br />
[16:34:06] * AlanBell adjusts fees accordingly<br />
[16:34:12] * inetpro will watch this debate with a great deal of interest<br />
[16:34:16] &lt;Daviey&gt; OK.. thanks for having me.. Returning to lurk mode o/<br />
[16:34:21] &lt;AlanBell&gt; o/<br />
[16:34:24] &lt;popey&gt; thanks Daviey much appreciated<br />
[16:34:29] &lt;inetpro&gt; we have 11 official languages in South Africa<br />
[16:34:31] &lt;popey&gt; [TOPIC] Adding the FSF blog to planet.ubuntu.com<br />
<a name='4'></a>
[16:34:46] &lt;popey&gt; dpic is not about and brought this up on the mailing list<br />
[16:34:54] &lt;sabdfl&gt; i don't think having a default language for the project is discriminatory<br />
[16:35:15] &lt;sabdfl&gt; i think we should certainly create facilities to encourage expression in any language<br />
[16:36:02] &lt;sabdfl&gt; i think the default url, planet.ubuntu.com shoudl stay English, as that's the language used for debate, development and major announcements<br />
[16:36:21] &lt;inetpro&gt; sabdfl: for now that is :-)<br />
[16:36:48] &lt;sabdfl&gt; sorry, i was catching up, and didn't want to let the multi-lingual meme get carried away<br />
[16:36:51] &lt;charlie-tca&gt; I agree with sabdfl. A default language does not discriminate.<br />
[16:37:13] &lt;popey&gt; thanks sabdfl<br />
[16:37:20] &lt;popey&gt; ok, moving on, FSF on planet ubuntu?<br />
[16:37:31] &lt;popey&gt; the suggestion was made that they tag entries with 'ubuntu'<br />
[16:37:34] &lt;pleia2&gt; I don't think it discriminates, I just think it would be unfortunate to miss out on the international flavor of the project (I use chrome's translate feature often)<br />
[16:37:54] &lt;sabdfl&gt; pleia2: let's have a separate aggregator, /+babel<br />
[16:38:03] &lt;sabdfl&gt; anyhoo, moving along with the chair<br />
[16:38:38] &lt;sabdfl&gt; any seconds for the tag suggestion?<br />
[16:39:00] &lt;popey&gt; +1 for the hhgttg reference<br />
[16:39:12] &lt;pleia2&gt; seems reasonable, pretty much in line with the corporate blog policy<br />
[16:39:20] &lt;Technoviking&gt; the seems fine to me<br />
[16:39:39] &lt;popey&gt; +1 to the tag<br />
[16:39:50] &lt;sabdfl&gt; i'm interested to see if they acknowledge that we've always been on the pragmatic side of the copyleft debate<br />
[16:40:06] &lt;sabdfl&gt; (+1 from me too)<br />
[16:40:15] &lt;sabdfl&gt; i think that's quorum<br />
[16:41:29] &lt;popey&gt; the suggestion was sent to Danny.<br />
[16:41:43] &lt;popey&gt; should we confirm via mail to Danny that this is the decision of the CC?<br />
[16:42:28] &lt;pleia2&gt; can't hurt<br />
[16:43:27] &lt;sabdfl&gt; i'm happy to err on the side of being a big tent with lots of voices inside<br />
<a name='5'></a>
[16:43:35] &lt;sabdfl&gt; http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2010/01/14/ubuntu-debian.html<br />
[16:43:47] &lt;popey&gt; sorry, mum just called having trouble getting her mail in chrome on ubuntu<br />
[16:43:50] &lt;popey&gt; brb<br />
[16:45:30] &lt;popey&gt; back<br />
[16:45:37] &lt;popey&gt; \o/ vnc over ssh<br />
[16:45:46] &lt;sabdfl&gt; braveheart<br />
[16:45:59] &lt;pleia2&gt; :)<br />
[16:46:21] &lt;sabdfl&gt; so yes, popey could you reply to danny, affirmative with tag for relevance?<br />
[16:46:28] &lt;popey&gt; sure<br />
[16:46:45] &lt;popey&gt; [ACTION] popey to reply to Danny with recommendation that FSF use Ubuntu tag for posts to planet ubuntu<br />
<a name='6'></a>
[16:47:07] &lt;popey&gt; [TOPIC] Any Other Business<br />
<a name='7'></a>
[16:47:09] &lt;popey&gt; Anything?<br />
[16:47:26] &lt;sabdfl&gt; all clear here. should report that debconf this year was most welcoming yet, at least to me<br />
[16:47:36] &lt;sabdfl&gt; jorge gave a great talk on ubuntu-debian relations<br />
[16:47:38] &lt;pleia2&gt; that's great to hear :)<br />
[16:47:38] &lt;Technoviking&gt; excellent:)<br />
[16:47:52] &lt;popey&gt; oh yes, you gave a talk on Unity?<br />
[16:48:00] &lt;sabdfl&gt; well received, interesting questions, only one pointed comment on U1 which is understandable<br />
[16:48:01] &lt;popey&gt; was it videoed?<br />
[16:48:06] &lt;czajkowski&gt; shall we be seeing the CC doing monthly reports from now on ?<br />
[16:48:17] &lt;sabdfl&gt; i think it was, not my greatest oratory but the questions were good<br />
[16:48:17] &lt;popey&gt; czajkowski: ok, will do one<br />
[16:48:35] &lt;popey&gt; [ACTION] popey to do monthly report for the CC this month<br />
<a name='8'></a>
[16:48:42] &lt;sabdfl&gt; popey: does shakespeare have any good quotes to the effect of "YOU ROCK"?<br />
[16:48:57] &lt;sabdfl&gt; if so, i doth quoth the bard in your direction ;-)<br />
[16:49:06] &lt;popey&gt; arf<br />
[16:49:23] &lt;czajkowski&gt; grin<br />
[16:49:29] * czajkowski hugs popey THANK YOU<br />
[16:49:30] &lt;sabdfl&gt; is that a wrap?<br />
[16:49:33] * ajmitch agrees on jcastro's talk being excellent, the bit of it that could be heard on the live stream :)<br />
[16:49:35] * popey takes the bottle of gin from sabdfl <br />
[16:49:41] * inetpro lol<br />
[16:49:50] &lt;AlanBell&gt; "shall I compare thee to a summer's day?" is probably the closest<br />
[16:49:50] &lt;popey&gt; yes<br />
[16:49:53] &lt;pleia2&gt; thanks everyone<br />
[16:49:57] &lt;pleia2&gt; AlanBell: haha<br />
[16:49:58] &lt;sabdfl&gt; ftr, i'm jetlagged, not gin-lagged ;-)<br />
[16:49:58] &lt;popey&gt; #endmeeting<br />
Meeting ended.<br />